Harriet Sinclair
·Deputy News Editor
Updated
Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer defended their tax plans in their latest election debate on Sky News on Wednesday as the Labour leader insisted he was not a "political robot" and the PM said that he ate Haribos and Twixes when asked to name something likeable about himself.
According to a snap YouGov poll, 64% of people watching said Starmer performed better in the debate, while just 36% said it was Sunak, who at times appeared deflated.
Starmer started off by swerving questions on tax rises and his previous support for Jeremy Corbyn.
Sky News’s Beth Rigby asked several times whether taxes would rise after July if he became Prime Minister.
But the Labour leader refused to be drawn, insisting only that no tax rises were needed “for the plans in our manifesto”.
He also dodged early questions about the last general election, in 2019, when he publicly claimed his predecessor Jeremy Corbyn would make “a great prime minister” - despite admitting on air he was privately “certain” his party would lose.
Addressing the increasing possibility of moving into Downing Street next month, he reflected on the impact the top job could have on his family, particularly his children, who he said he wanted to be able to “walk to school and have their own lives” as much as possible.
But he drew a groan from the live audience at Grimsby Town Hall when he referenced his father’s job as a toolmaker, a repeated refrain throughout the campaign so far.
The only real difficulty he faced under questioning was when a member of the public left him briefly stumped by the suggestion he had turned into a “political robot” in recent months.
Responding after a brief pause and a laugh from the audience, Starmer stressed a history of public service, adding he was not “tribally political”.
Sunak faced a significantly tougher time in contrast, particularly when quizzed on the NHS, prompting at least one boo from the audience when he blamed industrial action for the lack of progress on reducing waiting lists.
The PM also flailed over the D-Day row and several times repeated apologies for leaving commemorations in Normandy early to record a TV interview.
He said: “I was incredibly sad to have caused people hurt and upset, that was the last thing that I wanted to do. I hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me.”
He was also forced to say sorry for the ‘Partygate’ scandal during the coronavirus pandemic after it was raised by a former Conservative Party chairman who said she was now an “undecided voter” and was “ashamed” of the party.
She said: “That picture of the queen left to bury her husband on her own during Covid, following guidance we all followed, knowing what happened in Downing Street, that’s where trust broke down.
“I appreciate the apology tonight but there’s a long way to go to rebuild that [trust].
Sunak was also challenged on tax, admitting the burden was “too high”, prompting heckles from the audience, but blamed it on “difficult decisions during the pandemic”.
Read more:
Follow below for a full rundown of Wednesday nigh's debate:
LIVE COVERAGE IS OVER39 updates
Harriet Sinclair
Keir Starmer challenged on tax while Rishi Sunak squirms in grilling on D-Day and immigration in TV interviews
Rishi Sunak was forced to defend his immigration policies, while Sir Keir Starmer faced uncomfortable questions about Labour's tax plans in live TV interviews on Wednesday evening.
The leaders were grilled on their plans for the country in the “Battle for Number 10” Sky News election special in Grimsby.
The Prime Minster floundered when voters questioned him about record immigration levels and NHS waiting lists. He was also forced to apologise again for the "hurt and upset" he caused by leaving a D-Day anniversary event early last week.
Read the full story from the Evening Standard.
Harriet Sinclair
'There’s an overwhelming sense that everything is broken,' says Daisy Cooper
Liberal Democrat deputy leader Daisy Cooper said following the debate that there was an overwhelming sense that "everything is broken".
"There are millions of people who still haven't made up their minds," she said. "The impression we’re getting speaking to people on the doorstep is there’s a lot of people who feel like they’ve been taken for granted for a very long time."
Harriet Sinclair
Starmer 'won' debate, poll shows
A snap poll after the Sky News Battle For No 10 programme found Sir Keir Starmer came out on top among viewers.
In the YouGov poll commissioned by the channel, 64% of respondents thought the Labour leader won the night, while 36% thought Rishi Sunak had been stronger.
Sky said 1,864 respondents took part in the poll.
Harriet Sinclair
Audience member's reaction to Sunak shared on social media
The woman in the back is all of us. #SkyDebate #BattleForNo10 pic.twitter.com/m466mhSFD8
— Ben Stevens (@benstevens2002) June 12, 2024
Harriet Sinclair
'I would vote neither' says audience member
Asked whether hearing the leaders this evening had changed anyone's mind, several members of the audience said their minds had been changed.
One man said he had come to the event preferring Starmer, but after hearing the debate, decided he would vote for neither of them.
Harriet Sinclair
Audience gasp as post-Brexit migration numbers revealed to Rishi Sunak
Post-Brexit migration numbers shocked the audience at Wednesday’s general election debate.
With Rishi Sunak sat on stage, host Beth Rigby noted that the total net migration figure into the UK in the past three years was 1.9 million, compared to 836,000 people in the three years running up to the 2016 referendum.
Read the full story from The Independent.
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak asked about National Service
Rishi Sunak was asked about his plans for national service after he said he would be pleased if his daughters took part.
He was asked if he was prepared to hand out criminal records to those who refused to take part, which he ruled out.
"We will set up a royal commission.," he said. "There’s a lot of models from across Europe to look at. That's how other countries do it. When you talk to other countries the amount of young people that recommend it and love it is extremely high."
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak told trust broke down during Covid when late Queen buried Prince Philip
Asking a question about rebuilding trust and the debacle at the D-Day memorial, an audience member told Sunak: "I just think that picture of the queen left to bury her husband on her own during covid following guidance we all followed. knowing what happened in downing street, that’s where trust broke down.
"I appreciate the apology tonight but there’s a long way to go to rebuild that."
🚨 NEW: A former Tory now undecided voter receives an applause after asking how the public can restore trust in Rishi Sunak "or if it's already irreparable" #BattleForNo10 pic.twitter.com/HnWL7mgRDL
— Politics UK (@PolitlcsUK) June 12, 2024
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak asked about racism, sexism and misogyny in policing
Asked about systemic racism, sexism and misogyny in public institutions like the police, Sunak said there was now a focus on violence against women and girls, and added that police numbers were at a record high.
"In the Met in particular there are a range of issues," he said, adding that the system was being reformed.
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak asked why the government has 'spoiled the hopes and dreams' of people wanting to buy homes
Rishi Sunak is taking questions from the audience. He was asked by Ian, a retired teacher, from Grimsby, about mortgages.
In said: "Mortgages are less affordable particularly for people such as my daughter. Why has your government spoiled their hopes and dreams?"
Sunak replied: "Hopefully we’re on the right path and you will see that reflected in mortgage rates." He added that he had pledged to abolish stamp duty for first-time buyers purchasing homes under £425,000.
Harriet Sinclair
'Tetchy Sunak is back'
Social media users discussed Rishi Sunak getting 'tetchy'.
Tetchy Sunak is back. He *hates* being challenged.#BattleForNo10#SkyDebate
— Eddie Burfi (@EddieBurfi) June 12, 2024
Ooh someone's getting tetchy #BattleForNo10
— Nicky (@Nickylgw) June 12, 2024
Tetchy Sunak is toast.#brexit #torielies #battleforno10
— Lady Veritas 🏴 🇪🇺 🌎 ✌️ (@TheTruthSword) June 12, 2024
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak says net migration numbers 'too high'
Sunak was asked about Brexit and immigration.
"Immigration is too high," Sunak said, agreeing that people voted for Brexit to "take back control of our borders".
The total net migration figure to 2016 was 836,000 people, Beth Rigby told Sunak, adding that net migration had more than doubled since the UK left the EU.
"I’m sure people, feel frustrated," he said. "The numbers are too high. I’m not making any bones about that. But i can tell you I’ve started to bring them down. Last year numbers were down by 10%. This year the number of visas is down by a quarter and the forecasts show we’re on track to halve net migration in just over a year."
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak booed as he suggests doctors strikes responsible for NHS waiting lists
Rishi Sunak was booed from the back of the room after he suggested that the NHS had such high waiting lists as a result of the junior doctors' strikes.
Ooooh @RishiSunak blaming the Junior Doctors for NHS waiting lists growing. What a gaff. #BattleForNo10
— #HelloMyNameIs Tom 🇺🇦💙 (@TomStrudwick93) June 12, 2024
Laughing, booing, heckling, and he’s only five minutes in.
What a disaster he is. #battleforno10— Matt (@Matt_in_London) June 12, 2024
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak asked 'how do we know you'll still be PM in a year's time'
Sunak was asked, "How do we know you’ll still be prime minister in a year’s time?"
He replied: "Of course we haven't got everything right but what I can do is work as hard as I can to deliver the stability we said we would. The economy’s growing wages are rising and that’s why we’re having this election, to talk about the future."
Harriet Sinclair
Sunak asked about D-Day commemoration
Sunak has said he was 'incredibly sad' to have caused people hurt by leaving the D-Day commemoration early and wanted to assure veterans the UK would look after them.
"The last thing I wanted to do was cause any hurt. I apologise unreservedly for that. I was privileged to participate in the commemoration events, but also demonstrate my commitment to making this the best country in the world to be a veteran," he said.
"I was incredibly sad to have caused people hurt and upset and i hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me.
Harriet Sinclair
Rishi Sunak is in the hotseat
Beth Rigby has asked Rishi Sunak "what is going so wrong?".
Sunak said it had not been an easy 18 months in general but was excited to talk to people about the future.
"We've got a clear plan for the future," he said.
Harriet Sinclair
What the public says on private schools being taxed
We should not be treating private schools as charities. Simple.#battlefornumber10
— Jamie A (@JamieAdStories) June 12, 2024
Here we go funding money by using a STEALTH TAX on parents sending kids to a private school. Normal working class parents send kids to private school hoping to provide the best opportunities for their children. #battlefornumber10
— Rsk (@rskunited7) June 12, 2024
Surely no average working man from London spends £7k to send their kid to school. Talk about a divide. 🤯🤯 #BattleForNumber10
— Steph (@steph_innit) June 12, 2024
Taxing private schools won’t fix state skills at all. Thanks to the bloke who asked it to turn Starmer turn red #BattleForNumber10
— inside out. (@rknayyar) June 12, 2024
Harriet Sinclair
Starmer accused of being a "political robot"
An audience member said Starmer had previously seemed relatable but had turned into a "political robot" - he was asked how people could be persuaded to vote for him.
Starmer replied that he went into politics late in life because he wanted to serve people.
"Do you think you've changed," the audience member interjected.
"I'm much clearer in my mind that the country should come first and the party second," he said.
The robot question is genius 😆#BattleForNo10 #BattleForNumber10 #SkyDebate
— 💁🏾♀️ Pritha Bardhan 🤷🏾♀️ (@PrithaBardhan) June 12, 2024
The political robot question was a perfect moment for kier to be less robotic and he gave a really political robotic answer. #BattleForNumber10
— cazmulvihill (@cazmulvihill) June 12, 2024
Harriet Sinclair
Starmer asked about taxing private schools
Starmer was asked whether he would reconsider taxing private schools amid fears working people would be forced out of the system.
"I have nothing against private schools," Starmer said, adding that he recognised that people worked hard to send their children there.
"In our state secondary schools we have thousands of teachers missing in the subjects they need. For those children state secondary schools that’s not a one-year problem or a two-year problem, that’s a lifetime problem."
Harriet Sinclair
Junior doctor asks when Starmer will commit to pay medics fairly
Starmer said he was "frustrated" that junior doctor strikes had gone on for so long and that they were bad for patients.
"Instead of arguing about who gets in the room first to negotiate, we would roll up our sleeves... get in the room and negotiate," he said.
Beth Rigby asked if he would pay them more.
"Pay, progression, conditions and all of that can be negotiated," he said adding that a 35% pay rise was not affordable."
"I don’t think doctors want to be on strike. I know the pressure NHS staff are under. It’s been unrelenting. We will roll up our sleeves, get in the room and settle this dispute so the country can move forward. The sooner we can get some grown ups in the room the better."
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